"Keep Aspect Ration (VMR)" in TV window / fullscre

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"Keep Aspect Ration (VMR)" in TV window / fullscre

Postby Dreamer » Sat Jun 14, 2008 1:48 pm

When using option "Keep Aspect Ration (VMR)", aspect ratio is correct in main window, TV window and fullscreen, but...

- in TV window - AR of the window is not changed, there is a 16:9 picture in the 4:3 window, if the AR of the window is changed manually, there is just a small 16:9 picture in the middle of larger 16:9 window

- in fullscreen - the same - there is just a small picture in the middle

TV window - 4:3 AR - incorrect

Image

TV window - 16:9 AR - incorrect

Image

TV window - 16:9 AR "Keep Aspect Ration (VMR)" disabled - correct

Image

Could you please add this automatically? Currently it's not possible when using "Keep Aspect Ration (VMR)" option.

Thanks.

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Postby xopowo » Mon Jun 16, 2008 4:29 pm

I have keep aspect ratio enabled and everything works well here. Not sure what is going on there. To me, at least, it looks like your second image is the one that is actually correct. If the broadcast is 4:3 AR, but the source is 16:9, then one would see cropping on all sides as I see in your middle posted image.
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Postby Dreamer » Tue Jun 24, 2008 10:23 am

...it looks like your second image is the one that is actually correct. If the broadcast is 4:3 AR, but the source is 16:9...

But the broadcast AND the source is 16:9! "Keep Aspect Ration (VMR)" option can detect it, but I need to automatically change also the AR of the TV window - and the fullscreen.
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Postby xopowo » Wed Jun 25, 2008 2:16 pm

Dreamer wrote:
...it looks like your second image is the one that is actually correct. If the broadcast is 4:3 AR, but the source is 16:9...

But the broadcast AND the source is 16:9! "Keep Aspect Ration (VMR)" option can detect it, but I need to automatically change also the AR of the TV window - and the fullscreen.


That wasn't a snapshot from a 576i/p transmission?

Even if the broadcast is from 16:9 HD source (720p/1080i/p), how do you know that the source was? Do you know what type of HD-DTV cameras and/or film cameras were used. Many programs are up-coverted to HD resolutions so they don't have to natively display in their 4:3 AR (even if it is WS).
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Postby Dreamer » Thu Jun 26, 2008 1:13 pm

It's the SD channel and it's broadcasting in 16:9 all the time.
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Postby xopowo » Thu Jun 26, 2008 9:39 pm

Right, just as I suggested, its not an HD 1.78 AR feed, therefore, despite it being ws format, it "should" be cropped top/bottom/left/right since the broadcast resolution is 1.33 AR, not 1.78. What you're seeing, in your 2nd picture, should be the proper way to display that content natively if you choose 16:9 display. If you want 4:3 display, then your first one is correct. Anyway it goes, your third picture despite a pragmatic ideal, is incorrect.
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Postby xopowo » Thu Jun 26, 2008 9:56 pm

All screenshots taken with setting of Aspect Ratio -> Keep Aspect Ratio (VMR)

4:3 broadcast with 16:9 source - correct

Image

4:3 broadcast with 4:3 source - correct

Image

16:9 broadcast with 4:3 source - correct

Image

16:9 broadcast with 16:9 source - correct

Image
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Postby Dreamer » Fri Jun 27, 2008 3:18 pm

But my screenshot is the same as your "16:9 broadcast with 16:9 source" screenhot, not as your first screenshot "4:3 broadcast with 16:9 source". Compare the black color on your first screenshot and on my screenhot. That channel is broadcasting in 16:9 all the time.

Edit: OK, it's working strange, sometimes it's working good:

- disable option "Keep AR (VMR)"
- change AR in the main window to 16:9
- enable option "Keep AR (VMR)"
- switch to TV window
- change AR in TV window to 16:9
= now it's working good, but the 4:3 channels are incorrect (in the main window - the AR of the main window is 4:3, channel AR is 4:3, so perhpaps it's even a bug??)

Image

- disable option "Keep AR (VMR)"
- change AR in the main window to 4:3
- enable option "Keep AR (VMR)"
- switch to TV window
- change AR in TV window to 16:9
= result is the small 16:9 picture in larger 16:9 window, I think this might be considered as a bug

Image

Try the steps above, you should get the same result as me.

Again, my suggestion is not just change to correct AR, but also change the AR of the window, that's all.
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Postby xopowo » Sat Jun 28, 2008 12:00 am

If the display you're projecting this on is widescreen, then NO MATTER what you do, in order to display it correctly - you have to have cropping on all four sides if the source is 4:3 (which yours is). If the display you have is fullscreen, then you will see cropping top/bottom no matter what the broadcast AR is, as long as its WS.

It seems to me that you don't have access to a true 16:9/HD feed, and this is causing some confusion. I'm sure you know 10 million things more than I about this stuff, but your source is NOT 16:9. Therefore, just simply choose the keep aspect ratio in the option and you're good to go. I think what you're trying to do is display some 16:9 stuff when you actually don't have any access to 16:9 or you would clearly know it.
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Postby Dreamer » Mon Jun 30, 2008 2:04 pm

Do you tried the steps above? Is it working good with your "true 16:9/HD feed"?

Anyone else for testing (from Europe, so we could try the same channel)?
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Postby xopowo » Mon Jun 30, 2008 4:31 pm

-Dreamer writes-
Again, my suggestion is not just change to correct AR, but also change the AR of the window, that's all.


-me-

The "AR" of my window never changes for any of the screenshots I did. If I look at your latest sceenshots, you changed the physical window sizes to "compensate" for the type of source feed, not the broadcast AR.

For example, all of the HD source content I watch is either 720p or 1080i. I find a show on one of these two feeds that is broadcasting a 16:9 picture. I size the window to just the right size so the whole window is filled with the broadcast image itself. I leave my default window that size now no matter what I view. So, if I now tune into a 480i/480p/576i/576p broadcast, no matter what is being broadcasted (16:9 show or 4:3 show), I will see cropping just as you see in the snapshots I put up.

You source feed is 720x576i/p which is not technically ws. So no matter what show is airing and its AR, you can't get your screen to behave as my fourth picture without distorting the "keep aspect ratio" feature, since the AR is relative to your screensize you've chosen. If you have DD set to a 16:9 display, no matter what show you're watching, if the "keep aspect ratio" is selected, then you will see cropping.

Bottom line is, if you have access to an HD source, then resize your windows to a 16:9 AR relative to the feed. Once its there, choose "keep aspect ratio (vmr)" as an option. From that point on, never resize your window again. All content, based on its broadcast source and content, will display correctly.
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Postby xopowo » Mon Jun 30, 2008 4:43 pm

Reading your post more carefully, I have to add two things.

#1 - I'm viewing everything on a monitor that is set to 1920x1200 resolution, so if the source and content aren't 16:9, then I will see cropping no matter what.

#2 - I never mess with my window size or AR ratio of my display, I want everything in widescreen, and if it natively isn't broadcasted that way (based on the principles of broadcast resolution and source content), then I want to see cropping because it is the only way for the picture to be displayed correctly without distorting it. "Keep Aspect Ratio (VMR)" works correctly under these principles.

#3 - Having stated everything above, I have never tried to turn on/off the keep AR feature based on the source type, because I "want" cropping so I know what to know the source/content and right away I would know if it is or is not an HD transmission.

I guess if you don't have access to an HD source this can be difficult to interpret, and I suppose if I didn't have HD either, then I might want to mess with some of the settings that you have listed and perhaps there is a bug. But, I have some 200 HD stations, so I have everything setup to display for those. If I tune something that is not HD, or its an HD feed, but not 16:9 source, then you will see things exactly as I posted in my screenshots. I have everything set this way (via ws display in window sizing and "keep ar (vmr)" turned on so no matter what I tune to, it will be displayed correctly (in accordance with how it "should" be displayed).

To make a long story short, I never resize my window based on the source I'm tuned to.
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